Sunday, November 9, 2008

It was prayer that beat California's Proposition 8?

[Photo from the]

Yup. Prayer did it.

The fact that Focus on the Family poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into defeating Prop 8, and that Utah Mormons pumped in hundreds of thousands more, and that over 70% of California's black voters (how ironic is that?) voted for the amendment -- all of that is irrelevant.

The most important factor was prayer

Or so says San Diego pastor, Jim Garlow. He and a group of "prayer warriors" went into prayer-attack mode and even fasted for 40 days. And god heard their prayers. And Prop 8 went down. Yup.

Garlow, verified by God, got a bit feisty: "We're sending a strong message from California: don't mess with marriage. Don't mess with marriage."

Garlow's got a bit of a problem, though, as do all the Focus on the Family freaks and the Mormon morons.

All these people, and all the prayer warriors, and all the fasting did not convince god to stop the election of Senator Obama.

What does that mean? God hates homosexuals but Obama as president is OK? But Obama doesn't seem to have a problem with gay marriage.

Ain't these christianists funny?


Anonymous said...

Does that mean when the prayrers are not answered, god has a reason and a lesson to be thaught? P{eoplke have been praying for an end to abortion, unwanted pregnancies, etd. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. How do we know when it does or doesn't?
Bob Poris

Christian said...


Your perspective really puzzles me regarding prayer, between this and other posts in the past few days. You seem to ask very though-provoking questions, yet don't care for an answer (or don't like the answer you get). Either you are looking for real answers, or you are simply being divisive for your own entertainment. Regardless, based on other posts, you are presupposing there are no answers, so it seems pointless for me to respond.

Even so, the only answer I can give is from my belief in the Bible. The Bible is what I'm basing my perspective on, so the answers I give are reflective of that. You may use Socrates if you wish, but only one of them is based in Truth.

Prayer is not some way of ordering God around. This is the perspective you take by your question. As if God is at our beckon call, to do our bidding. No, prayer is a form of humility before God. God knows our needs and knows the future. Yet, He also allows us to make choices and suffer consequences. Above all, God has a plan for mankind and for you--He has a Will that certain things happen at certain times. When our prayers are in line with God's Will, we see the fruits of our prayers.

God's Will is to allow man to continue in sin until the proper time of Jesus' return. "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9). He's talking about you, Bob.

If I understood how God can know the future and yet I can choose, I would be God. It is not for me to understand this and be God, it is for me to have faith that God is in control and submit to His Will.

I continue to pray for you and Jacob.

Anonymous said...

Your mind has closed securely around your belief that your Bible has all the answers. I ignore it and address my questions to any that wish to look at them. I do not expect the world to think as I do. I have lived thru too much history and witnessed the destruction of over 50 million people due to the refusal to see where Hitler’s philosophy was going. Since then we have seen further evidence of genocide, starvation, disease, wars. etc, while the world and its leaders sit idly by. That includes the world’s religious leaders that find ways to not interfere. It is obvious that God is not going to solve those problems either so it is left up to mankind. Waiting for God while we pray, is a cop out and makes us feel good.

I do not think asking questions is divisive? Stating absolutes that are not accepted by all, is not an answer. There might be answer, once one assumes that we should not wait for Jesus or God to resolve all problems. Man has choices but that is a humanistic approach and frowned upon by those that await God’s answers. Dobson and others KNOW all the answers, yet the problems persist. I guess they are not correct.

I have no intention of waiting for God to solve any problem I can resolve with or without Him. You can wait if you will. That is your privilege. In any event, God will do as He wants. He always has. In the meantime, a loaf of bread will keep someone alive while waiting for God’s plan.

You can direct any prayers for me, to someone that is truly in need somewhere within your reach.


Christian said...


I have studied the Bible long enough to see that it is Hope, that there is a future beyond this world, and that God has a plan. The more I study it, the more I see that God has spoken through it. I find its wisdom far superior than man's ideas.

You miss the point when the Bible says "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness...". The way you describe the state of the world and the "where is God?" position is counting God slack. Where is God? If he can do so much, why hasn't He? Great questions, and if you want to know, all I can offer you is the rest of that verse: "...but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Belief in a future Glory DOES NOT mean that I stand by idle while people suffer. That is another generalization you hold on dearly to. We are to help the poor in this life, but we are to recognize that the effects of sin, which started from the Garden of Edge, will be with us until Christ returns to set this straight. No man or world leader can or will. A loaf of bread is only one part of the need in this life, the other part is spiritual. To ignore either without the other is to be missing something.

Bob, you are within my reach, through this technology. My heart aches to read how in turmoil you are, carrying the burdens of what you've seen and of a fallen world and thinking human effort will fix it all. My prayer is for you to have peace through belief.

Anonymous said...

I consider that as valid as the mythology of the ancient Greeks and Romans, I also enjoyed the mythology of the Norsemen, which at least has a sense of humor. All were accepted on faith by all those people plus all the Hindus, Oriental religions, Christian, Jewish etc. If you want to believe and to act upon those beliefs, do so. Just do not require others to join you unless they accept it as truth, as you do. I assume you do not accept the Mormon religion for yourself as they do not accept yours. If God is all you say, He does not need your help to do anything. If he wishes something HE has the power to do it.

Mistranslated words are not the word of God. The only time a written message from God is noted in the

Old Testament is the Ten Commandments. The original translation into English is not the one frequently

used on the Courthouse steps. Which is God’s and which is some person’s version. Who has the

Authority to make the changes and why should everyone accept that as God’s word? If two opposing

armies pray to the same God for victory, does the victor have the favor of God?

Actually, I think we are both wasting our time with this. My concept of God is more all powerful than yours. I give God credit for His powers and think he might have made changes over the centuries. He could certainly have directed Darwin to tell us about evolution or any scientific discovery. He certainly might have sent another son or daughter to earth a million times to see what is going on. We simply do not know. In the absence of knowing, I leave all that to God and resent you and others telling people what God wants or doesn’t want and then trying to make us agree with you. If “God wishes to tell us something, I believe He can do so in unequivocal terms. If not, then the various Bibles are all wrong.

Bob Poris

ridosan said...

Bob, A question for you; If your child did something wrong, would you bail him/her out every time, or let your child suffer the consequences?

Jacob said...

Ridosan: What the hell does that have to do with anything?


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